Episode transcript
This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and readability.
A conversation about dignity and belonging
Jaime Buxton: Have you ever looked at someone’s life and thought, “I wonder how they ended up that way?” Maybe it’s a woman at an intersection, a man panhandling. Maybe it’s that same child dropped off at school every day, hungry and disheveled. But what if our knee-jerk reactions are wrong? What if those people we so quickly judge are more like us than we think? This is the Not That Different podcast, where we look at the stories behind the statistics of homelessness.
It’s an opportunity to peel back the layers of what we think about people who are experiencing homelessness. Because when we stop and listen, we start to understand something surprising. Individuals experiencing homelessness aren’t those people. They’re mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers. They’re our neighbors. They’re the people God calls us to love. Today we’re talking with a local pastor and a member of our board here at The City Mission in Cleveland. He recently came and talked and encouraged us as a staff here at The City Mission and reflected on the story of Philemon and what it teaches us about dignity, status, and the way we see others.
His perspective helped us connect an ancient biblical story to the work we do every day serving men, women, and children experiencing homelessness. Those who are often overlooked. It’s through conversations like this one and the many others that we have planned through this podcast that we hope that the truth continues to surface, that we’re really Not That Different. I’m Jaime Buxton. I’m the senior manager of community engagement at The City Mission and now a podcast host.
It’s my joy and heart to really pull back the layers and stigmas of homelessness and to help you come to a better understanding. I’m passionate about serving and I hope that you’ll enjoy the journey we’re about to take you on today. I’m joined by Reverend Stephen Owens or Pastor Steve. He’s the pastor of Mount Calvary Baptist Church here in Cleveland and he’s also, like I said, a board member. He’s been a board member here at The City Mission for about 5 years.
Is that right?
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yes. Yes. Yes. I’m super excited to be here and thank you so much for the opportunity.
Pastor Stephen Owens and The City Mission
Jaime Buxton: Oh my goodness. Like I was telling you before we started recording, when you came and talked to our staff, it just was like, “Oh my goodness. I wish that was our first podcast.” Everything you said is exactly what I want to convey in this. So, I’m so excited for you to be here. Pastor, tell me a little bit about your congregation, where you’re at, what you’re doing, what you’re passionate about.
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yeah, super excited. And so, first of all, the church is Mount Calvary Baptist Church. So, we’re a part of one of the inner-ring suburbs of Cleveland. So, Bedford. I’ve been there for 11 years. And the Lord has been gracious to us. Super excited. We are we’re growing. The Lord has given us the opportunity to go to two services this Easter. So, super excited about what the Lord is doing. So
Jaime Buxton: Praise God. That’s awesome.
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yes. And to do it on Easter Sunday.
Jaime Buxton: Yes, absolutely. Explosion. Praise God. Yes. Absolutely. Well, so we know you care about Clevelanders.
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yes.
Jaime Buxton: What led you to be part of the board of The City Mission? How did that go down?
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yeah. Yeah. Such a great question. And so, interestingly enough, I was referred to Linda by the pastor who used to be the pastor over at Scranton Road Bible Fellowship. And about me being a board member. And interestingly, when I came and kind of saw what was happening, I had an uncle who passed and he had mental challenges and many times he was homeless and it just resonated with me, right? Uncle Mike, that was his name.
Yeah. And just loved him and when I saw some of the guys just reminded me like This is somebody’s uncle or dad or son and it’s important that we try to encourage them and help them any way we can. And it I believe it helps us to represent who Jesus is, right? By showing the love of Christ.
Jaime Buxton: Absolutely. Oh, I love that. I didn’t know that. So, and that’s exactly the kind of the whole point of what we’re doing here, on this podcast is helping people understand that people who are experiencing homelessness aren’t really all that different and we’re not as far removed as I think we are. You know, I think we think we’re in our suburban bubbles or out of the inner city bubbles and we’re really not as far removed as people think.
Because when you come here and you lock eyes with the men, the women and children, they look just like my family. They look like your family. They look like Uncle Mike, right? And so I think it’s so important for people to know that and to try to make that experience for themselves. So I’m glad and I know you didn’t say his name, but let’s give him the shout out. Pastor Joe Abraham, right?
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yes.
Jaime Buxton: So, yeah, we love Pastor Joe and I love that he kind of nudged that door open for you.
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yeah, yeah. I was super excited about it, too.
Jaime Buxton: Yeah. Well, we were too because you’ve been around for 5 years now, so what do you think if you had to explain the work of The City Mission to your church or to a stranger, what do you what do you say we’re doing here?
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yeah, it’s it’s a lovely question. So the way I begin to see The City Mission is basically like the hands and feet of Jesus. All right, so caring for those who are in need looking at trying to bring forth life transformation through you know skills development training but also the gospel is the first thing that you know, we try to put forth telling people who Jesus is and how he could change their lives and out of that comes these you know, a way to better a person’s life practically.
Mhm. So yeah, so I would say the hands and feet of Jesus and preaching Jesus so the mouthpiece of Jesus too.
Jaime Buxton: Absolutely. Yes. Thank you. Okay, so now let’s rewind just a probably not that long ago. Linda reaches out to you or maybe her assistant Lauren also our producer reaches out and says hey, will you come to our staff meeting? I mean is that a moment of like what am I going to share or did you immediately say I know what I’m going to share?
Pastor Stephen Owens: It’s the first one. What am I going to share? What am I supposed to do? Absolutely. All right, so I begin to pray and talk to the Lord and then kind of just you know, begin to you know, flip through the scriptures and the Lord led me to Philemon, you know, and I was like all right, Lord, I’ll share it.
Jaime Buxton: Yeah. I have to say when you had us flip to Philemon that day I thought I don’t know if I’ve ever heard anybody preach on this ever and you know, I’ve loved Jesus a long time. I’ve been in a lot of church services. If I’ve studied Philemon, you know, or heard someone speak on it. It was just glazed over and so I was like okay, all right, Pastor Steve we’re diving into something different today and that really excited me.
I guess can you give us because I know how good it was. I mean really I was fangirling and writing lots of notes. You know, let’s give the listeners a quick overview of the story in the book of Philemon and the people who were involved.
Paul, Philemon, and Onesimus
Pastor Stephen Owens: Sure, absolutely. So, it’s not a long epistle at all. It’s one chapter. Yeah. All right, and
Jaime Buxton: Which makes it great.
Pastor Stephen Owens: Right, absolutely. Easy to read. Just jump on in there, right? But yeah, so there’s basically three main people, all right, who are part of the epistle. So, you have the Apostle Paul who wrote it, all right, and he’s actually under house arrest as he is writing the letter and he’s writing it to Philemon, all right, and Philemon was a wealthy Christian in the city of Colossae, all right, and he was also a slave holder, a slave owner.
Mhm. And one of his slaves ran away, Onesimus, who, interestingly, runs away to Rome and he is able to meet Paul while he’s under house arrest and he gets saved, all right, and his life changes and he begins to serve with Paul and help Paul and so Paul writes a letter to Philemon saying, “I want you to receive Onesimus back, but don’t just receive him back as a slave, receive him back as a brother.
The same way you would receive me, receive him.” So that’s so that’s that’s the basis of the story, all right, and Paul also makes a very generous sacrificial position to say, “You know what? If he owes you anything, I’ll pay for it.” Yeah. So I’ll even sacrifice what I have to make sure if any type of debt he may have caused, we can bring this back together.
Jaime Buxton: Thank you. And so help me, Pastor, kind of understand or our listeners understand, what’s the cultural reality of slavery in the Roman world when this is being written? What is the meaning behind all of this? The depth of what slavery is, I guess.
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yeah, so slavery during the Roman Empire, it was literally baked into society. Mhm. It was baked into the economy as well. It’s estimated somewhere around, you know, a third of the population within the Roman Empire were slaves of some sort, right? Right. Matter of fact, some even say in Rome itself, almost half the population could have been slaves. So, it was a part of everyday life. Yeah. But they weren’t just slaves as in as we would know like in America, people out in the fields.
No, some of these slaves were tradesmen. They were also household laborers, educators. Some of them did some agricultural work. Mhm. Even some administrative work, right? And part of some of the governments, right? And so, you see, it was widespread, but the difference between what we know as American chattel slavery and slavery within the Roman Empire was chattel slavery was based on race, Mhm. Right? And during the Roman Empire, some people sold themselves into slavery, right?
And they were also able to earn their way out of slavery Right. As well. So, it wasn’t as if it was a confined position for all of existence, right? Right. There was opportunity to get out at some times, Mhm. Right? But, it was challenging because, you know, it wasn’t as if they had dignity. It wasn’t if they had the ability to do anything outside of what their masters said. They were property.
They were still property. They weren’t seen as people, right? And to be a runaway slave would’ve been very dangerous, especially as Paul is trying to do now, send Onesimus back with this letter, right? And saying, “Be received.” Because Philemon could have punished him. He could have sold him. Even possibly death, right? For running away. So, it was a dangerous trek to go back, right? Believing that Jesus could touch this man’s heart.
Jaime Buxton: Wow. Yeah, and even when I think about that and the differences, I think, you know, he wasn’t just running away to freedom. He was running away and still owing, right? You know, like so even I have to undo kind of some slavery definitions in my head of, you know, American slavery like that. So, he may have even chosen himself into slavery and then to run away, he was I mean, he was like robbing the bank, too, right?
Like
Pastor Stephen Owens: For Paul to say, “If there’s any, you know, debt that he owes.” Right? So, some say that he possibly, you know, when he left, he took some money with him or he could have caused some hardship because he left, so therefore stuff wasn’t getting done.
Jaime Buxton: Right. Of course.
Pastor Stephen Owens: Anything could have happened. But the fact that Paul is like, “I’m willing to sacrifice for him, right? And to pay any type of debt.” Yeah.
Advocating for someone whose life has changed
Jaime Buxton: That’s That’s significant. Why do you think Paul chose to do that? To advocate for Onesimus on such a deep level?
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yeah. Well, I believe first off, Paul loved Jesus. Yeah. And then secondly, he loved people, all right? And then particularly, he loved the church, right? He loved other Christians. Mhm. Matter of fact, verse 8 and 9 says how he did this for love’s sake, right? So, he is appealing to Philemon out of love, right? He said, “As an apostle, I could command you to do this, but out of, you know, sake of love Mhm.
I’m asking you to do this.” And he also in verse 12 talks about how Onesimus is his heart, right? So, all of this is like out of love for one another, for people, and for the church. And also, Onesimus has also changed. He’s not the same person that Philemon knew. Mhm. Right? So, one, he got saved. Right. Paul says, you know, he’s become my son in chains, right? So, he’s given his life to Christ.
He believes in Jesus now. He’s He’s a new creature, right? He is different now. And so, not only is he is he saved, but secondly, he has changed practically. Right? So, Paul says how he may have been unprofitable before, Mhm. But now he is profitable. Before, he was useless. Mhm. Now he’s useful. Yeah. Right? So, practically some things have changed as a result of him coming to know Jesus, right? So, so Paul is advocating for him because one, he is a brother in Christ, but then secondly, right?
He has some skills and some practical things that now he can bring forth to help. So, I think he’s advocating because, you know, he loves people and he wants people to see that change happens because of Jesus.
Jaime Buxton: Yeah. Yeah. It really is mind-boggling to me when I think about this. You know, and really just even when you think about Paul, you know, he himself is on house arrest, right?
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yes, absolutely.
Jaime Buxton: And he’s saying, I’ll pay for him. But we really know Paul doesn’t have anything, right? And so, just the repercussions of what that really means is that the church will cover, you know? And I don’t know, that just really dawned on me right now in this moment. So, sorry, I’m going off script, but like isn’t that what we’re called to do? And so many times, myself included, I can be sitting in the church going, well, what’s that missionary going to do?
You know, how am I going to invest in that? Or maybe I don’t love the way this minister at my church is going right now. But like Paul’s like we’re we’re going to put our money where our heart is, right? And this is my heart. Onesimus is my heart and we will cover this. I don’t know, it just it’s pretty bold when you think about because he was speaking on behalf of others, really.
Yeah. That we’re going to have to help cover that. Absolutely, right? That financial burden.
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yes, absolutely, right? Ministry costs money. So, but I think one thing that’s very interesting, too, we see that Paul identifies with Onesimus, right? I mean, he could have he could have said like at the opening of the letter, you know, the Apostle Paul you know, anointed by the Father, called by the Father, anointed by Jesus, you know, servant of God, but he says Apostle Paul, prisoner of Christ, right? He brings up multiple times how he’s in chains.
Like he’s identifying with Onesimus. So, he is no different, right, in this situation than this man who’s now a Christian who’s also in some level of bondage.
Jaime Buxton: Right.
Pastor Stephen Owens: Right. Yeah, I thought that was amazing. How Paul tries to make sure that Philemon sees like there is there’s not a whole lot of difference between us two.
Jaime Buxton: Yeah. Yeah. Hence why I wanted you to be here.
Receiving someone as a brother
Jaime Buxton: Yes. So, in the letter, Paul encourages Philemon to receive Onesimus no longer as a slave, but as a brother. And what does that shift in perspective really mean, Pastor?
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yeah. Well, one, I believe Paul is encouraging Philemon to see Onesimus in a different light. Mhm. Don’t just see him as a person in bondage. Don’t just see him as a as a slave, but see him as a brother, all right? See him as someone who is now in the faith just like he’s in the faith. Mhm. Matter of fact, he’s a part of your family now, all right? Because we’re the family of God, all right?
So, don’t see him as property, see him as a person. Mhm. Don’t see him as a problem, see him as a person with dignity, a person who one has the imago Dei, right? So, that the image of God, God created him, but then secondly, Jesus has redeemed him. He is valuable enough to have Jesus to shed his blood for him to be purchased by Christ. And so, he needs to see him differently, all right?
And so, Paul I think Paul is trying to encourage Philemon to see him as a person with inherent dignity, Mhm. And he has value, and that God wants to bring forth some reconciliation, all right? Out of this situation.
Jaime Buxton: Absolutely. Yeah. So, then how do you think this story challenges the way Christians sometimes think about status or power or social hierarchy or even more than that just the baggage that we carry as humans, right?
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yeah. Well, I will say this, power and status, I believe, should be used to elevate and not decimate. It should be used to lift people up, all right? Instead of pull people down. Mhm. I believe we should be using it to bring forth harmony, all right? And to bring forth reconciliation, to use it to help those who cannot help themselves, like thinking about Jesus. While we were yet dead in sin, Christ died for us.
Like there is no kind of way we could bridge that gap to the Father. Right. Right? So, Jesus came to help us literally, right? Sacrificing his life for us so that we can have that reconciliation with the Father, right? And so, I think that is how we should be looking at power and status that we are trying to help people who sometimes cannot help themselves, but also bring forth reconciliation and harmony, right?
And so, like I think with Jesus, like he’s helping the marginalized, he’s helping the vulnerable, he’s changing lives. He’s around lepers, right? He’s around and touching lepers, right? People who no one wants to be around or touch or talk to, Jesus is like, “Hey, what’s up, buddy?” I know. You know? And healing them, right? People who would be considered unclean, that everyone would run away from, Jesus is like, “Come on over here, you know?
Let me talk to you. All right, let me tell you about the Father.” And changing their lives.
Jaime Buxton: Absolutely. And so, obviously, you know, there’s a lot of parallels between the story of Philemon and the way society views people experiencing homelessness or, you know, you could fill in the blank with any negative thing right there, right? But I guess how do you think that this should motivate us? I mean, obviously, we’re talking about people experiencing homelessness on this podcast, but we could go much further than that, right? But for the sake of this, Should this motivate people, and how?
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yeah, yeah. Well, well, first off, I would say we should not look at people through their problems, all right, and categorize people on worth based off their problems and what they’re going through. But, we should we should see them based off the dignity that God has inherently placed in every single one of us. Right. And not seeing people as statistics, but seeing them as if they have a story. There is a reason why that they ended up where they are, right?
And helping to, you know, have some conversation around that. So, so you can actually see the value in people. And secondly, I would say that we should, as much as possible and if we can, lean in to help. Mhm. Right? In what whatever way that looks like, whether that is, you know, financially or coming down to serve, feeding, whatever that may be, but on your level, right, how can you help those who are the least among us, right?
And some of them are our brothers and sisters in Christ. Yeah. Like just because they’re addicted to something or homeless or have a record and a felony, right, that does not cancel out their salvation, right? That does not cancel out the blood of Jesus. These are brothers and some of these are brothers and sisters in Christ, right, who have fallen on hard times and are facing difficulty. And they need the church.
They need Christians.
Jaime Buxton: Yeah. Mhm. That’s actually one of the biggest fallacies, I think, you know, people have about the people who are here at the mission is oh, they’ve never heard the gospel or, you know, many people who come to us have experienced Christ in some way. They’ve you know they have a family member who loved the Lord who introduced them. Some of them yes do come to us already having a relationship with Christ, but you’re right.
The circumstances surrounding them have had you know negative effects on their life whatever that is that they can fill in and so I think yeah, so many Christians believe well, you can’t possibly look like that or live like that if you’ve got Jesus in your heart and I think that’s one of those things that it’s one of those layers I want to pull back that there are people who come to us who already have a relationship with Christ.
Now there are plenty more that I consider pre-Christians that are that are hopefully you know we’re going to introduce them and they’re going to join us in that family real soon, right? But what does it mean to you to restore dignity to someone who’s been overlooked or been written off or stigmatized?
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yeah, I love that question. So I would I would say this to one to see them how God sees them. All right. And God sees people as valuable. Like God loves people. Right. I think sometimes we forget that. Like he loves people, right? Even people who don’t have everything figured out and who have tons of problems and not just problems that are hidden. Problems that are visible, right? That he loves people to see people the way God sees them as valuable as worthy to be died for.
Right. Right. He sent Jesus for them. And then seeing people as brothers and sisters, right? First in humanity, right? Because God created them, right? We’re all a part of the human family, right? But then secondly, seeing them some of them possibly as pre-Christians, right? So, they possibly could be a part of the family of God, right? But then some of them who are actually a part, right? So getting past just the problem and seeing the person, right?
And then I would say even next is welcoming them. Mhm. All right? And so, it’s the idea of hospitality, right? So, welcoming people near you, next to you, like you want to get to know them. Mhm. All right? Wanting to get to know their story, and if possible, help in some kind of way, Yeah. Right? I think that’s how we begin to help to restore some of that dignity. And then lastly, I would say, you know, put your money where your mouth is, right?
So, so give, right? Because that’s what the Apostle Paul was willing to do. He was willing to give
Jaime Buxton: Right.
Pastor Stephen Owens: In order to bring reconciliation and restoration, right? Of people’s lives, right? So, being able to give to help. I think that’s what that begins to look like.
Jaime Buxton: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I want to backtrack to that comment on like hospitality. I think sometimes we put that off on the church or we put it off on the organization that we’re a part of, but what does I mean, I know you’re a pastor, so you’re trying to motivate your church in these same ways, but what does that really mean for me, Jaime Buxton? Like, how would you say this is how we’re to be hospitable to someone who needs it?
It can be someone experiencing homelessness, it could be someone who looks a little different than me that is my actual neighbor, you fill in the blank, but what does being hospitable actually mean?
What hospitality looks like in practice
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yeah, it’s good. So, when I think about hospitality, it is the idea of welcoming people into your space. Mhm. Right? And being able to care for them as much as you can, right? So, let’s say in someone coming down here to volunteer at the mission, right? It is you literally welcoming the people the residents who already live here Mhm. Into the cafeteria. Like, I am glad to see you, right? I am happy that you are here.
How can I help you? How can I serve you, right? Right. And so, I think that extends, right? If they’re coming down here to serve, but also for your neighbor, right? So, many times, you know, we can see people who particularly who live in the suburbs, right? We live in the suburbs and people drive into their garage, which is attached to their house, right? And then, if they want to go outside, they don’t have a front porch.
They have a deck. Yeah. That’s surrounded by a fence. So, no one can see them, right? Right. And they don’t talk to anybody, right? So, hospitality literally is inviting someone into your space, Yeah. Right? And being able to kind of expose who you are to them, right? For the purpose of one, yes, relationship, but then secondly, for the relationship of Jesus. Yeah. Right? So, I want to get to know you because you’re valuable, but I want to tell you about someone who is even immensely more valuable, Right.
Right? Which is Christ Jesus, right? So, I would say that’s what hospitality kind of looks like.
Jaime Buxton: Yeah. I love that you said being hospitable includes you exposing yourself, right? Because so many times it’s like, “Oh, well, just do something nice and welcome somebody in and meet their needs.” But it goes both ways to be genuinely the way God calls us to enter into a relationship. And I think, you know, maybe that’s a dying art in the United States is like being open to relationship and being willing to expose yourself and how you live and all of that.
So, I appreciate I appreciate your words so much. Is there anything else that you want to add before we kind of close up? Because again, I am so grateful for just the way you shed light on this passage and it is now in my repertoire of why we serve.
Pastor Stephen Owens: That’s awesome. Praise the Lord. I enjoyed myself. This was fun.
Jaime Buxton: Yay, good. It is fun.
Pastor Stephen Owens: Absolutely. Yes. So, Yeah, I don’t have anything else to share. I would encourage people to read the letter of Philemon. Yeah. The epistle, I believe it’ll be very helpful and eye-opening. So, that’ll be my last thing.
Jaime Buxton: Yeah, read the Bible.
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yes, absolutely.
Jaime Buxton: Give your church one more shout-out if they wanted to learn more about you personally, pastor.
Pastor Stephen Owens: Yes. So, Mount Calvary Baptist Church. Our website is mtcalvaryofbedford.org. That’s mtcalvaryofbedford.org. We’d love for you guys to come check us out.
Getting involved
Jaime Buxton: Awesome. Thanks for joining us on Not That Different. We hope that this episode resonated with you and maybe even your heart started to beat faster about getting involved in some way. If you’re local to the Cleveland community, we’d love for you to check out our website at www.thecitymission.org. You can go on there to find out about volunteering, joining our associate board, or even just donating to the cause. We would love for you to get involved.
If you’re not local to this area, we encourage you to look around and find spots like us that are helping men, women, and children experiencing homelessness. As always, like and subscribe if you liked this episode and share it with someone today. Thanks so much for listening.